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[Music]

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country is very divided right now

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i think in my lifetime it seems like

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it's the most divided i don't know if

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you happen to

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agree with that but you know this

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dichotomy as far as the attitudes and

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in politics in california and new york

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versus a place like texas and florida i

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mean texas and florida

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are wide open arizona is mostly wide

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open

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um but you know the talk of secession

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yeah is like a real thing now yeah well

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yes

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uh uh one crazy thing

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it will never happen um it's thrown out

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there i think like

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you throw red meat out and look for

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people

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i think it's absurd and i doubt that

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this will go anywhere

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but but i sometimes wonder is it really

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absurd and here's why i asked that in in

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i'm asking an expert like you

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i mean did the founders ever

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envision that we would be this big

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they knew the population was growing

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rapidly that we were

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the colonies were overtaking

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the mother country franklin wrote about

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that a kind of demographic exercise

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that he put out so they knew they were

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growing very rapidly because the birth

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rate was high

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and the death rate was much much lower

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than in europe or other parts of the

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world

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i don't think they imagined 330 million

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but they definitely were counting on a

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big

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uptick in population not only

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the natural increase but very hefty

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rates of immigration

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well i look at there's talk about

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breaking up google right now

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breaking up facebook they're facing

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antitrust claims and so on and

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my attitude toward that is i think you

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know what that's probably a good

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thing to break up these companies and

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when a company gets too large

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the levels of bureaucracy and so on is

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just

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too much to manage if i was a owner of

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google stock

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i think i'd be in favor of a breakup

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because instead i'm going to own

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stock in 10 different companies each one

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of them is probably going to be

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more efficient than them together as a

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whole

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and i'll bet you and you know this

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happened with the breakup of ma bell

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right

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i mean it's broken up into multiple

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companies that ended up doing

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independently very well and one of the

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things we're

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after here is competition right every

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time a merger is

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announced the pr is that it

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will lead to greater efficiency and

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therefore

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lower price to the consumer

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uh a year later turns out i don't know

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about efficiency but the prices don't go

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down

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yeah so competition has been one of the

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keys yeah

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so so just as just as those companies

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have gotten too large

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i mean the idea of politicians in

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washington dc

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having to manage this country that

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stretches over

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six time zones and it's 340 million

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people

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and you've got such a divergence of

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views now

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between those in california oregon and

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washington

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versus those in texas and florida versus

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those in the northeast

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um why would this necessarily be a bad

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well if america broke in three we'd have

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three state departments three

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departments of agriculture we would have

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uh tax revenue problems uh

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i think it would be a disaster for for

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the seceding

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states if we count them

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as read today because

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wealth is concentrated on the two coasts

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and then in texas of course

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but the seceding states would be

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mostly rural um and i think incapable of

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competing on this global market

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did not anticipate the civil war um

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but they did think that governments

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should be close to the people

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yeah i i don't think this is going

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anywhere as i said

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yeah but it's it's the close to the

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people part that i'm kind of

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focused on because it's gotten a lot

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further away from the people i mean

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didn't the founders believe that local

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government was the best government

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uh depending on your point of view the

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federalists

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uh let's take hamilton as a leader there

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uh believed in more concentration of

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power in the federal government than the

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jeffersonians

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who thought that the power should reside

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in the states primarily

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and that's one reason the electoral

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college was invented

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because it would curb the

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democratic impulses centered in the

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states

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but but even hamilton being a federalist

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and and

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wanting more centralized powers than the

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others compared to the amount of

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centralized power there is today

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doesn't that go even far beyond even

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what hamilton had envisioned

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oh sure way way beyond but this is

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250 years later 275

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years later so how do you feel about

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some attempt to

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correct that are you familiar with uh

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mark levin's

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book the the um

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liberty amendments i'm not

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so i think it's a mark levin who's a big

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conservative

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thinker and he was in the reagan

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administration and so on and so he's a

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strict constitutionalist conservative

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however

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he actually is promoting the idea of

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10 new amendments to the constitution

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the idea being to help bring it back

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to what the original intent was because

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so many things have gone too far whether

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it be

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you know the commerce clause getting

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blown up or what have you

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that we we need a full correction to get

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it back to what the original intent of

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the founders

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were that essentially through a series

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of supreme court

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decisions etc etc that it's it's gotten

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away from its

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original uh intention kind of as you

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just pointed out that you know even

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hamilton wouldn't have envisioned

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the centralized government getting this

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big well i'd have to look at those 10

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amendments so that would be very

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interesting

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but every amendment requires both houses

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and and three quarters of the states to

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endorse it

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uh and if we were to say well let's

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start over again

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and ten new amendments sounds almost

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like we're

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he's asking to start over again uh

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we think they're just unified now

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try to start over again on the

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constitution then

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then i don't know this would be chaos

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take it to the highest level yeah one

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one humorous thing i was thinking about

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is

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if you were to break up into three

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countries

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so now you'd have three constitutional

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conventions theoretically i guess one of

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them could

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could say oh we love the constitution as

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it is so we're going to stick with it

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but

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if if california was drafting its

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constitution

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it would be quite different wouldn't it

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be about

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all the rights that people are entitled

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to you're entitled to

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health care you're entitled to a home

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you're entitled to

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a job would be all these things that

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government is required

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to provide for you yeah well california

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certainly would be different than let's

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say north dakota

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but we have in california have had for

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quite a long time the movement to split

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up california

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that were those in the northern rural

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mountainous

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areas have very little in common

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with the people in san diego los angeles

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and san francisco

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the coastal earth the coastal urbanites

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so we've always had that secession

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movement in

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california they wanted northern

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california

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to be called jefferson or something like

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that

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so from a constitutional perspective

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what would be

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is there a mechanism for a state to

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self-divide

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not that i know of it would have to take

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a

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of here

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lose social security they would lose

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medicare

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they would lose federal water rights at

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a cheap rate

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they would lose an awful lot and they

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couldn't produce the income to support

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such programs on their own

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so it's a pretty um

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much a splitter splitter group and uh

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not a very realistic idea and if a state

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wanted to secede

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from the united states there's no

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is there a process for that uh well

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i guess that takes us back to 1861.

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we would the federal government would

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so the the founders did not envision any

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process by which a state could decide

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on its own to leave the union

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no they didn't imagine this

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they knew that there were tensions

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between the northern states

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and the southern states and they managed

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to compromise on that

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hamilton got his financial economic

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program through

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the south got the nation's capital

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moving from philadelphia to the banks of

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the potomac

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so when we last spoke we talked a lot

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about what's going on in

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in the schools and you played a central

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role in

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in developing national history standards

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and

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received a lot of criticism from the

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right for

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things that you chose to include in

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there

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starting with that what is it that you

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saw

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when you were involved in that that was

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not being taught

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up in in our u.s history classes that

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you thought needed to be taught

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well um not me so much as

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the advisory council

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of the 100 of 31 organizations

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who were pulled under the big umbrella

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and hundreds and hundreds of teachers

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who participated in joining scholars

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to to answer the question you've just

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asked what's left out what do our kids

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need to know

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it was the biggest consensus building

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project

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in american education that we've ever

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had

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where teachers in the trenches and

292
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:35,680
scholars in their

293
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:38,480
ivory or not so ivory towers were

294
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:40,320
reaching out to each other

295
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:44,959
and say let's figure this out together

296
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:48,880
let's not hand it to some group

297
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:52,000
centered in washington or any other

298
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,480
place

299
00:11:55,670 --> 00:11:54,639
let's do it together so it was an

300
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:55,680
enormous

301
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:58,880
consensus building project and

302
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:01,600
well what was decided it took many many

303
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:03,440
drafts

304
00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:06,480
but what was not part of the big blow up

305
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:08,160
media blow up

306
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:11,519
which was the thing most needed

307
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:14,880
in k-12 education was world

308
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:18,160
history world history was

309
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,040
not taught very much and very well

310
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:23,519
teachers were not prepared to teach it

311
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:26,720
most states gave it a nod in texas

312
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:29,760
the only course the kids would get

313
00:12:34,389 --> 00:12:32,720
on their way to college was called texas

314
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:34,399
of the world

315
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:36,959
which wasn't really world history at all

316
00:12:41,509 --> 00:12:38,399
it was about

317
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:41,519
texas growing involvement in global

318
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,920
economy and things like that

319
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:46,000
but on all the flack came on the

320
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:47,519
american side

321
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,320
not a whisper on the contribution these

322
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:52,399
standards made to world history

323
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:54,160
which was very difficult really

324
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,920
inventing what was not yet in the

325
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:57,040
schools

326
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:00,079
what was done in u.s history

327
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:02,880
was mostly done in the schools attention

328
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:03,519
to women

329
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:05,519
attention african-americans native

330
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:07,920
americans latino americans

331
00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:11,120
the poor working class stiffs

332
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:18,069
and what do you say to those that say

333
00:13:21,829 --> 00:13:19,360
that now

334
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,839
the role of slavery in the teaching of

335
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:22,880
america's

336
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:26,959
past is taken over

337
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:29,600
talking about all the important elements

338
00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:30,160
of what

339
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:31,920
america was breaking away from which was

340
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:34,079
a monarchy and the idea that

341
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:35,680
they all are born created equal you're

342
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,839
not born into a class system and so on

343
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:39,839
that there's a segment out there that

344
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:42,320
seems to want to be dismissive of

345
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:45,120
our founding because of slavery i think

346
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:46,880
it's a very small

347
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,480
um group i don't think this

348
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:53,040
that slavery has overtaken the u.s

349
00:13:58,069 --> 00:13:54,240
curriculum

350
00:14:02,150 --> 00:13:58,079
in any but possibly a couple of

351
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:02,160
uh outlier school districts

352
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:05,519
it's been 20 years since the afrocentric

353
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:06,480
idea

354
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:09,680
took hold uh in some quarters

355
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:11,839
and that was the idea that we start with

356
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:13,600
africans in america and

357
00:14:19,269 --> 00:14:17,519
lead out from there the use of ebonics

358
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:19,279
do you remember ebonics

359
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:22,399
the use of of what would pass as kind of

360
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:23,920
street language

361
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:26,560
um in african-american communities and

362
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:28,880
ebonics was being taught

363
00:14:33,189 --> 00:14:31,760
as a language in the oakland school

364
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:33,199
schools for example

365
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,279
for just a couple of years and the

366
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:37,199
afrocentric

367
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,320
approach to american history faded

368
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,639
pretty quickly from the screen

369
00:14:47,350 --> 00:14:44,399
so i think it's wrong to say that

370
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:47,360
slavery has overtaken

371
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,680
the teaching of u.s history it's an

372
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:52,000
essential part of u.s history without

373
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:52,720
slavery

374
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:55,920
we don't have american history but what

375
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:57,760
about the 1619 project isn't that

376
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:59,199
something that you would say is kind of

377
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:01,040
trying to revert back to that and

378
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:04,160
making that the center again well the

379
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,360
1619

380
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:08,320
project of the new york times is one

381
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:09,519
piece of curriculum

382
00:15:13,030 --> 00:15:12,160
among thousands of pieces of curriculum

383
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:13,040
out there

384
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:16,079
the irish potato fam famine

385
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,639
also gets its play in some states as a

386
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,920
mandatory

387
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:21,600
requirement as part of the u.s

388
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:24,800
curriculum it may be one day

389
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:28,480
the 1619 project yes does want to focus

390
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:29,440
attention

391
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,560
on slavery in its aftermath in america

392
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:35,040
um but that's not to take over us

393
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:35,920
history

394
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,240
it's it's to call for a larger role

395
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,240
of the study of slavery african

396
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:44,160
americans and the struggle for freedom

397
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:46,480
over four centuries

398
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:50,240
so help people understand how to digest

399
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:53,440
the fact that thomas jefferson who

400
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:57,040
wrote that all men are created equal

401
00:16:01,590 --> 00:15:59,279
right they're all born equal you're not

402
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,600
born into

403
00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:04,079
a particular family of privilege or what

404
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:06,959
have you got god created all of us equal

405
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,199
yet he owned slaves yes

406
00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:13,519
the founding fathers called it natural

407
00:16:18,550 --> 00:16:15,759
rights inalienable rights

408
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,560
those that you didn't earn those that

409
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:20,399
weren't gifted to you

410
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:23,759
those rights that you were born with yes

411
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:27,759
and about 20 of the population

412
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:29,519
uh when the constitution when the

413
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:31,199
declaration was written

414
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:34,800
were african-americans and of that 20

415
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:37,680
it very very low percentage who were

416
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,240
free almost all of them were enslaved

417
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:42,480
so how did the family fathers reconcile

418
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:43,440
that

419
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:50,470
what they believed in theory was not

420
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:52,399
carried out in practice

421
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:55,759
and some argued and still argue today

422
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:57,519
that they didn't consider african

423
00:17:02,949 --> 00:16:59,839
americans to be part of the

424
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,959
deal they were talking about white

425
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:05,199
americans

426
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,919
but that's that's not entirely true

427
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:09,520
because there were certainly

428
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:12,880
those at the time white founding father

429
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:13,679
types

430
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:15,919
who were busy freeing their slaves

431
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:17,199
because they knew it

432
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,839
ran against natural rights inalienal

433
00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:21,760
rights

434
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:26,079
hamilton himself was one of those

435
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:29,360
so when jefferson writes

436
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:33,120
all men are created equal what's

437
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:35,919
going through his head at the time that

438
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:36,960
he writes that when

439
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:40,720
he knows that um

440
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:41,600
i mean they weren't writing the

441
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,000
constitution at the time but but

442
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:46,480
he knows that the direction is that

443
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:47,200
everyone

444
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:51,679
is supposed to be created by god equally

445
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:54,720
well it's one of those

446
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:57,520
contradictions that they felt they

447
00:18:02,710 --> 00:17:59,679
couldn't solve at the time

448
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:02,720
washington left in his will

449
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:05,840
freedom for all the slaves he had

450
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,120
when he died or when martha agreed to it

451
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:11,919
so he came aboard the abolitionist

452
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,960
bandwagon

453
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:14,480
and there were abolitionists in the

454
00:18:18,070 --> 00:18:16,000
revolutionary period

455
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:18,080
they weren't their voice wasn't very

456
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,039
loud

457
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,360
but it continued to grow all the way up

458
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,880
to the civil war

459
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:25,120
and some heeded it washington was the

460
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,240
founding father

461
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:28,640
who heeded it the most benjamin franklin

462
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:29,440
also

463
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:33,039
uh he did own slaves but he never died

464
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:34,799
with slaves on his hands

465
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:38,559
neither ran away or they were freed

466
00:18:41,990 --> 00:18:41,360
so the idea was certainly in the air

467
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,000
that natural

468
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:45,200
rights did include african americans

469
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:49,760
but when and how are we going to

470
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:53,039
uh give freedom to what was about 500

471
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:56,160
000 slaves out of two and a half million

472
00:19:03,029 --> 00:18:59,679
in say 1776 when

473
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:03,039
and how and it would have been

474
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:05,200
near impossible to put together this

475
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:07,200
union of these 13 colonies under this

476
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:08,559
new constitution

477
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:13,360
if it included freeing all the slaves

478
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:15,919
there were plans to do that they uh

479
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:17,360
pennsylvania did it

480
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:20,960
as a state in 1780 it was the first

481
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:24,000
of the 13 colonies now states

482
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:27,039
that created an emancipation

483
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:30,400
act but it was called gradual abolition

484
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:32,080
it didn't free all the slaves in

485
00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:33,520
pennsylvania at once

486
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:36,640
he said those born into slavery

487
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,880
of a slave woman after january 1st 1780

488
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:43,200
would be free and they would be free

489
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:44,160
after

490
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:47,280
serving a certain number of years as an

491
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:48,880
indentured servant was

492
00:19:52,150 --> 00:19:51,360
that was the first time as to any place

493
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:52,160
in the western

494
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:55,120
world that is that a political body

495
00:19:58,950 --> 00:19:55,679
actually

496
00:20:00,549 --> 00:19:58,960
took the dive and passed a gradual

497
00:20:01,830 --> 00:20:00,559
abolition act the northern states

498
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:01,840
followed in line

499
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:04,720
up through 1804 when new york was the

500
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,520
latest

501
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:07,679
of the states to do that did it spread

502
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:08,640
to the south

503
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:11,760
no but it did spread to individual

504
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:14,640
slave owners of freeing for example some

505
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,080
ten thousand

506
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,640
enslaved men and women in virginia by

507
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:20,880
eighteen hundred

508
00:20:24,870 --> 00:20:23,200
so but it was certainly the center of

509
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,880
much debate because you have the

510
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:26,000
infamous

511
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:28,720
compromise of counting uh african

512
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:29,679
americans or

513
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,360
africans at the time i guess as

514
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:32,880
three-fifths

515
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:35,120
and kind of the irony of that a lot of

516
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:35,919
people don't

517
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,720
focus on so much it was the south that

518
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:40,400
wanted them to be counted

519
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:43,679
fully yes it was the north that didn't

520
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:44,000
want

521
00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:45,440
them counted as fully because it would

522
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:46,840
have given way way too much

523
00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:49,280
representation yes to the south

524
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:52,000
yes exactly and and is is that also

525
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:53,760
because

526
00:20:58,870 --> 00:20:57,039
the north essentially opposed slavery so

527
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,880
they felt if we give too much power to

528
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,640
the south it'll be very difficult to

529
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:02,559
ever abolish it

530
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:04,720
well they did talk about this what they

531
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:06,799
call the slave power

532
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,159
the power of the south south based on

533
00:21:14,549 --> 00:21:12,960
slavery and the greater representation

534
00:21:18,070 --> 00:21:14,559
gave in congress

535
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:18,080
so word was around actually the

536
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:21,120
two published plans for gradual

537
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:22,640
abolition of slavery

538
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:25,120
were both written by virginians and

539
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:26,880
friends of jefferson

540
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:29,840
and this is in the 1790s they weren't

541
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:30,720
published

542
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:34,480
as you can imagine in richmond virginia

543
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:36,480
these gradual abolition plans they were

544
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:38,799
published in philadelphia

545
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:40,640
which was the center of quaker

546
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:43,120
abolitionism

547
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:45,520
so of of the founders that most of us

548
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:47,440
think about say the top

549
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:51,840
20 or so how many of them own slaves

550
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:54,960
well the first four president no adams

551
00:21:58,230 --> 00:21:55,280
was

552
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:58,240
of the exception other than adams four

553
00:22:03,190 --> 00:21:59,760
out of the first five pres

554
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:03,200
presidents were slave owners um

555
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:06,799
so slavery is rooted in the south for

556
00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:08,240
sure

557
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:11,440
but the argument of slave owners was let

558
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:11,679
us

559
00:22:18,310 --> 00:22:15,520
alone and it will die out gradually

560
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:18,320
because more people die than are born of

561
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:19,120
slavery

562
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:21,520
well that was certainly true all over

563
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:22,960
the caribbean

564
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:25,520
take jamaica british colony for example

565
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:26,960
two deaths

566
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,640
for every live birth you couldn't

567
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:32,480
keep a slave economy going without

568
00:22:36,390 --> 00:22:33,760
importing slaves

569
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:36,400
the south said we agreed to stop the

570
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:38,320
slave trade in 20 years

571
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:41,679
1808 right and there

572
00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:43,520
the numbers will go down because there

573
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,280
will be more deaths

574
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:48,000
than births and then came along the

575
00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:50,640
first federal census of 1790

576
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:52,400
and they looked at the numbers and they

577
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,120
said oh my god we got it wrong

578
00:22:58,710 --> 00:22:57,600
they're more births than deaths slavery

579
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:58,720
is growing

580
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:02,000
500 000 roughly 1776

581
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:06,000
800 000 in 1800 it's growing leaked by

582
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:07,520
leaps and bounds

583
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:09,360
oh now we have a different problem on

584
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:11,520
our hands

585
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:14,400
and where else had slavery at the time

586
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:14,799
the

587
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:24,720
how about europe

588
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:27,840
well england which was

589
00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:30,880
leading the slave trade with its

590
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:34,159
merchant ships their slave ships did

591
00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:37,840
in effect abolish slavery in 1772

592
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:39,760
not in their colonies not in jamaica and

593
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:42,960
bermud bermuda and antigua and barbados

594
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:46,559
but the high court said

595
00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,120
if you plant your foot on english soil

596
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:51,440
you cannot be a slave

597
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,120
but it took until 1833 for england to

598
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:57,360
abolish slavery in its colonies

599
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:01,600
well it took us till 1865.

600
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,640
but yes slavery was rooted all over not

601
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:06,640
just the caribbean but all over south

602
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:08,640
america there's no such thing as a

603
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:11,600
colony without slaves and the largest of

604
00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:12,240
all was

605
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:17,110
there's a very controversial statement i

606
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:18,240
think it's already been totally

607
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:20,080
discredited but i'll let you

608
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:22,720
address it that came from the 1619

609
00:24:25,029 --> 00:24:23,360
project

610
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:25,039
and i think they've since retracted it

611
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:27,919
but it says one of the primary reasons

612
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:30,000
the colonists decided to declare their

613
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,440
independence from britain

614
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:33,200
was because they wanted to protect the

615
00:24:40,269 --> 00:24:36,320
institution of slavery

616
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:40,279
well that is um let's say a

617
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:42,000
misrepresentation

618
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:45,440
or we could go farther and say

619
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,480
that's not true

620
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:51,360
what is true is that when the

621
00:24:57,230 --> 00:24:52,799
revolutionary war

622
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:57,240
moved from north to south in late

623
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,400
1779-1780

624
00:25:01,990 --> 00:25:00,240
and the rest of the american revolution

625
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:02,000
the war for independence was fought on

626
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:02,799
the south

627
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:05,760
and at that point georgia and south

628
00:25:11,909 --> 00:25:08,559
carolina planters particularly

629
00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:11,919
preferred protecting slavery um

630
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:16,240
to winning the war and so south carolina

631
00:25:25,510 --> 00:25:23,190
[Music]

632
00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:25,520
heavy in numbers and supporting the

633
00:25:29,669 --> 00:25:26,840
british

634
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:29,679
yes that much is true i'm very sorry

635
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:30,320
about this

636
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:34,400
um i think i squelched it

637
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:39,200
okay so to a very very limited extent

638
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:41,360
uh they could squeeze out of that

639
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:42,400
statement of

640
00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:46,000
kernel of truth but it it doesn't work

641
00:25:53,830 --> 00:25:50,000
well for 1776.

642
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:53,840
and what what do you think if you're

643
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,120
teaching a class what what what is

644
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:00,159
what is the the greatness of america's

645
00:26:03,669 --> 00:26:02,000
founding what's the most important thing

646
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:03,679
for people to

647
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:06,159
to know and understand about it and that

648
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:08,880
that made it so great

649
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:11,039
well a representative government a

650
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:13,360
representative democracy

651
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:16,799
um and eventually

652
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:19,840
freedom though that takes time but one

653
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,039
category of unfreedom of that they were

654
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:25,360
able to grapple with

655
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:28,080
very quickly was indentured servitude

656
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:29,840
where you came over as an immigrant

657
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:32,640
and you served five to seven years in a

658
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:33,440
kind of

659
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:36,799
semi slavery but the great idea was a

660
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:39,600
representative democracy

661
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:43,760
where we the people political authority

662
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:46,159
is not vested in the king and is not

663
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:49,520
invested in an aristocracy

664
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:51,600
the ultimate authority is invested in

665
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:53,440
the people

666
00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:55,120
you're not born you're not born into it

667
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:56,960
you're not subjects of

668
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:00,640
anyone all are equal yes although there

669
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:02,240
are limitations on it

670
00:27:06,549 --> 00:27:05,039
in many states you had to own property a

671
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:06,559
certain amount of property

672
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:09,600
to vote but even without the votes you

673
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:10,880
were entitled

674
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:14,880
uh to the privileges of citizenship in

675
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:15,840
many ways

676
00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:17,919
it would take a long time to gradually

677
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:19,039
get rid of the

678
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,320
property causes that were observed in

679
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:24,559
many states

680
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,399
and were there many if any examples of

681
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:30,480
successful republics around the world at

682
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:35,590
there was nowhere in the world with the

683
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:38,720
with a written constitution

684
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:41,760
england had its magna carta it had its

685
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:43,679
common law traditions

686
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:46,080
but a written constitution on piece of

687
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:48,640
paper that you could pick up and say

688
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:51,919
these are my rights that's new

689
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:55,279
in the world it's in europe

690
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:58,320
it it was a matter of amazement when

691
00:28:03,110 --> 00:27:59,760
they looked at this

692
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:03,120
the idea that these basic fundamental

693
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:06,559
core rights you could put down on paper

694
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:08,159
and say

695
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:11,679
there it is this is this is a promissory

696
00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:12,880
note

697
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:14,799
and not just that wouldn't you say that

698
00:28:18,230 --> 00:28:16,559
the way they structured it

699
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:18,240
with the three different branches and

700
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:20,640
even within congress having two houses

701
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:22,240
and so on i mean

702
00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:24,080
there's a lot of brilliance in that

703
00:28:28,789 --> 00:28:25,520
correct

704
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:28,799
yeah they were trying to balance um in

705
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:31,039
england they said we're very proud that

706
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:32,399
we split the

707
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,240
power up among the monarchy the

708
00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:35,919
aristocracy and the

709
00:28:39,269 --> 00:28:38,559
and the houses of parliament and america

710
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:39,279
said

711
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:43,120
no monarchy thank you no um

712
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:46,720
people born into an aristocracy uh

713
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:49,120
and control the house of florence we'll

714
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:50,159
just go

715
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:53,600
with the third part of the tripod of the

716
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:56,000
people part the representative

717
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,520
the democracy part hamilton

718
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:01,520
stood for three hours and said we should

719
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,520
have a king

720
00:29:08,789 --> 00:29:05,679
now you won't find that in music when

721
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:08,799
maybe there's a touch of a musical

722
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:11,600
so he leaned toward he was afraid of the

723
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:12,480
people

724
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:14,880
you know he said in one memorable phrase

725
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:16,799
he said the people sir

726
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:20,480
are a great beast watch out for them

727
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:22,159
give them all the power they'll be at

728
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:24,000
your throats isn't that a really

729
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:25,120
important background

730
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:27,279
understanding as there's people out

731
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:29,039
there seeking some type of

732
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:32,000
more utopian society where we all would

733
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:33,440
love that to be the case but the

734
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:34,880
recognition that

735
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:38,320
human nature is inherently selfish

736
00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:42,080
that people power is corrupting

737
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:46,240
and we need to really guard against

738
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,399
people usurping power because the the

739
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:50,559
founders recognized

740
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:54,000
human nature yes that's right and they

741
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:57,120
tried to um put up some fences

742
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:01,840
uh to prevent that and

743
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:04,240
one of them was the electoral college

744
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:06,399
that was meant to curb

745
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:09,600
um the aspirations of

746
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:13,039
a mass of ordinary people and that's why

747
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,640
the jeffersonians thought

748
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:17,039
more power to the states less power to a

749
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,399
federal government

750
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,480
when those whiskey rebels in western

751
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:22,799
pennsylvania refused to pay

752
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:27,120
a tax on the whiskey they were producing

753
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:30,159
washington had hamilton march west with

754
00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:32,080
a larger army

755
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:34,159
than washington ever commanded during

756
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:35,360
the revolution

757
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:38,880
to put down those corn growing

758
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:43,600
whiskey producing tax resisting

759
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:46,399
western farmers that was the display of

760
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:47,600
federal power

761
00:30:52,549 --> 00:30:49,679
that those of the jeffersonian

762
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:52,559
persuasion were afraid of

763
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:54,240
so yeah the electoral college is

764
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:55,600
something i'd never really given that

765
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,320
much

766
00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:58,240
thought to before but as we see it

767
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,559
playing out literally as we speak

768
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,640
with challenges in front of the united

769
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:04,320
states supreme court

770
00:31:08,230 --> 00:31:07,200
and state legislators sending the

771
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,240
delegates to some

772
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:10,880
it seems as if the founders even

773
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:13,679
anticipated that there could be

774
00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:17,039
accusations of fraud in balloting or not

775
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,039
just accusations but actual

776
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:22,080
fraud in in balloting and

777
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:23,919
it seems to kind of put in checks and

778
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:26,320
balances into the electoral

779
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:29,440
college system that would create

780
00:31:34,230 --> 00:31:30,960
mechanisms

781
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:34,240
for assuring that no matter what happens

782
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:36,640
you have a properly elected president

783
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:38,399
through the college

784
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:41,039
yes um i think they were not so

785
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:42,159
concerned about

786
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:46,240
electoral fraud and ballot stealing or

787
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:48,799
things of that sort what they were

788
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:50,080
worried about

789
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:51,760
was that people with a lot of money

790
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:54,480
let's say a merchant who has

791
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:58,000
30 employees and says as

792
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:01,360
as mckinley said to uh

793
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:05,200
um when you go to the poll

794
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:08,559
vote for my guy not the other guy

795
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:12,080
so buying or pressuring

796
00:32:17,029 --> 00:32:16,080
of those uh who owe something to you by

797
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:17,039
way

798
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:21,120
of your status as landlord or employee

799
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:24,559
um you you don't have a free vote you're

800
00:32:27,909 --> 00:32:26,000
really beholden

801
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:27,919
to those above you they were more

802
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,120
worried about that

803
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:32,240
there were secret ballots in most states

804
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:34,000
but they opened it up and say we should

805
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:35,360
have an open ballot

806
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:37,039
where you can choose you could drop

807
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:38,559
beans in a you know

808
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:40,720
a white bean or a brown bean in a

809
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,000
different box

810
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:44,480
in front of everybody so you show your

811
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:47,200
you're an independent voter

812
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:49,679
not beholden to others who have a who

813
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:51,279
have a grip on you

814
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:54,159
and and that opened up for fraud right

815
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:54,720
because

816
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:57,039
am i right that someone could be

817
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:58,720
standing there watching who you voted

818
00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:59,200
for

819
00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:01,919
and they give you five bucks if you've

820
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:03,840
if you voted the right way

821
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:07,120
yeah well we know we know about you

822
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:09,360
fast forward into the 19th century and

823
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:10,240
we know the

824
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,120
ward bosses and the people that are

825
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:15,120
immigrants who get naturalized and say

826
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:16,880
there's a turkey waiting for you on

827
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:18,159
thanksgiving day

828
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:21,440
if you vote the right way so yeah sure

829
00:33:26,420 --> 00:33:22,159
we have

830
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:26,430
i'm sorry about this

831
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:28,240
[Music]

832
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:31,279
okay um yeah so there

833
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:34,559
there's a a thread of that but i would

834
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:35,039
say

835
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:37,360
in the 20th century our elections have

836
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:38,080
gotten

837
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:42,799
cleaner and cleaner we have the founders

838
00:33:50,830 --> 00:33:45,840
sorry finish the point yeah oh well that

839
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:50,840
that uh we have a more sturdy muscular

840
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:54,720
um uh electoral

841
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:57,840
management system if we can call call it

842
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:58,559
that

843
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:01,200
than we had a hundred years ago what

844
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:03,039
would the founders say about

845
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:11,030
well the post office was

846
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:13,599
brand new franklin was the first

847
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:14,560
postmaster

848
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:18,399
general and but most people

849
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:21,040
didn't have money to send a letter

850
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:22,159
anywhere

851
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:25,440
so this is pretty much new new ground

852
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:27,040
i don't think we can look back to the

853
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:34,230
going back to some of the more

854
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:36,000
controversial parts of the founding that

855
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:37,200
is

856
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:40,320
all men are created equal but

857
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:50,069
yes except for one state new jersey

858
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:51,839
because each state had to write its own

859
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:53,280
state constitution

860
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:56,560
once they cut loose from english law

861
00:35:03,910 --> 00:35:00,640
new jersey's constitution of 1776

862
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:03,920
avoided masculine pronouns

863
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:07,920
so the women voted from 1776 for just

864
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:09,839
over a quarter century

865
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:12,160
uh doesn't make its way into the into

866
00:35:17,589 --> 00:35:14,320
the history books very often

867
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:17,599
then they were disenfranchised and it

868
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:18,320
took

869
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,240
until the 19th amendment 1820 to get the

870
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:23,760
vote back

871
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:27,280
but it was an example and the the notion

872
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:28,480
was in the air

873
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:31,520
the debate question for harvard uh

874
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:33,599
every graduating class had a debate

875
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:35,440
question was

876
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:37,760
should women have a greater authority in

877
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:38,640
running

878
00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:45,520
so the idea was in the air um but new

879
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:47,119
jersey was the only one

880
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:49,280
that actually went for it so when they

881
00:35:52,390 --> 00:35:50,400
write that all men

882
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:52,400
are created equal you're saying that

883
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:53,839
they meant

884
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:57,040
males men wasn't a generic term to apply

885
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:58,800
to everyone

886
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:01,359
well as to inalienable rights they did

887
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:03,119
they did mean everyone

888
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:06,640
excluding for many of the founding

889
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:08,960
fathers african-americans

890
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:13,119
but women yes were were part of

891
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:15,760
inheriting some of the privileges of

892
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:17,200
freedom

893
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,030
when when a couple divorces who gets the

894
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:27,359
kids one of many states

895
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:30,160
until the 19th century the father got

896
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:31,839
the kids and the woman would have to go

897
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:33,839
to court to sue for custody of the

898
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:34,880
children

899
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:36,880
so all this is part of an evolving

900
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,510
but certainly so you're saying that

901
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:43,440
women were included as far as being

902
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:44,160
created

903
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:48,240
equal but then what was their rationale

904
00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:52,240
for women not being able to vote

905
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:55,040
well you go back to the abigail adams

906
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:56,400
john adams

907
00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,839
uh discussion by letter because she's in

908
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:02,160
braintree and he's in philadelphia

909
00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:05,760
and the memorable phrase was remember

910
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:06,720
the ladies

911
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:09,680
and if you read down there she she said

912
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:10,880
remember the ladies

913
00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:14,480
we should be part uh we should not be

914
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:17,839
um the vassals she said

915
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:20,400
of our husbands or our fathers or

916
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:21,599
brothers vassal

917
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:25,119
is another word for slave and that if

918
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:26,000
you don't do

919
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:28,000
something about it while you're writing

920
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:29,119
all these

921
00:37:37,109 --> 00:37:33,040
then we will do

922
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:37,119
what the women did in ancient greece

923
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:39,440
and anyone who understood their

924
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:41,599
classical literature

925
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:44,079
knew that she was saying we'll keep you

926
00:37:47,510 --> 00:37:45,520
out of the bedroom

927
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:47,520
if you don't give us if you don't give

928
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:50,560
us a a fair shake

929
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:53,760
she didn't spell it out in in terms of

930
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:57,520
um every detail but she was very very

931
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:00,560
clear that men had too much power over

932
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:04,400
women and they ought to let up it was

933
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:06,640
legal to beat a woman

934
00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:09,680
only criminal criminality came at the

935
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:12,160
point of death

936
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:15,920
what was an old old expression about

937
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:19,440
a man could beat a woman um

938
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:21,359
oh i can't remember the expression with

939
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:23,920
anything that wasn't larger than a

940
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:27,119
uh with a large finger so anyway the

941
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:28,800
abigail adams john adams

942
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:30,960
uh discussion by letter was just

943
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:32,160
wonderful and i

944
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:35,440
have teachers uh use this in the schools

945
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:36,640
the great effect

946
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:39,200
a little girl stand up and cheer the guy

947
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:44,790
well i mean you know look times were

948
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:46,320
very very different

949
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:50,320
than we're talking about now almost 250

950
00:38:55,030 --> 00:38:53,599
years ago and i know in

951
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:55,040
last time we spoke you talked about the

952
00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:57,359
statues and not wanting to take the

953
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:58,480
statues down i mean

954
00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:01,040
if you try to hold everyone up to the

955
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:02,560
perfections of

956
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:04,800
whatever our standards are today versus

957
00:39:08,630 --> 00:39:07,520
were there 250 years ago it's

958
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:08,640
never going to compute you're going to

959
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:10,400
throw you're going to throw the baby out

960
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:11,280
with the bath water you're going to

961
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:11,920
throw them all

962
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:14,960
out because they didn't believe in

963
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:17,680
women being able to vote for instance

964
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:18,240
yeah

965
00:39:24,390 --> 00:39:21,359
i think the statue removal

966
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:24,400
business has gone much too far

967
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:26,480
it would be one thing to rename the

968
00:39:31,109 --> 00:39:28,640
pettis bridge

969
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:31,119
in alabama he was the leader of the ku

970
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:32,400
klux klan

971
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:36,000
it's quite a different thing to say

972
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:38,240
the statue outside thomas jefferson high

973
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:41,200
school in san francisco has got to go

974
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,040
teachers had a wonderful opportunity

975
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,680
there that statue is a teaching moment

976
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:47,599
take the class outside let's talk

977
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:48,720
jefferson

978
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:51,280
here's the man in bronze let's talk

979
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:52,480
about him what did he do

980
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:55,839
what that you admire what did he do that

981
00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:57,200
you don't admire

982
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:00,480
you can't teach to a vacant space

983
00:40:05,190 --> 00:40:03,040
that was once occupied by something

984
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:05,200
something that gives you this

985
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:08,480
so contextualize problematize

986
00:40:13,109 --> 00:40:11,280
make this into a learning opportunity

987
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,119
what are we going to do with washington

988
00:40:15,990 --> 00:40:15,359
and lee college what are we going to do

989
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,000
with the

990
00:40:19,829 --> 00:40:18,560
jefferson hospital in philadelphia one

991
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:19,839
of the great teaching

992
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:23,040
hospitals well and not just to have

993
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:24,160
something to teach to

994
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:27,680
but i mean is it okay

995
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,520
for us to look up to george washington

996
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:33,440
and thomas jefferson considering that

997
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:34,720
they were slave owners

998
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:36,839
can we still say that they're american

999
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:39,359
heroes absolutely

1000
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:48,150
faultless people there's a wonderful

1001
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:50,560
biography about washington and

1002
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,319
slavery called imperfect god

1003
00:40:58,390 --> 00:40:56,640
of washington and slavery in the early

1004
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:58,400
republic

1005
00:41:02,230 --> 00:41:01,440
so they still belong in the pantheon but

1006
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,240
let's

1007
00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:04,640
put some other people small heroes in

1008
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:05,680
the pantheon

1009
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:08,800
and let's not be afraid of looking at

1010
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:15,670
yeah i i like to draw a very current

1011
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:17,680
comparison

1012
00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:20,000
to barack obama who is held in very high

1013
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:21,280
esteem by many

1014
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,560
for many good reasons but he opposed gay

1015
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:25,920
marriage

1016
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:29,440
today among the left you're a homophobe

1017
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:31,920
if you opposed gay marriage but he was

1018
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:34,720
elected president opposed to gay

1019
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:35,599
marriage

1020
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:38,720
so you know you you're going to

1021
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,319
you're going to toss out every one of

1022
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:42,079
our former presidents you're going to

1023
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:42,480
find

1024
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:45,599
something some view that today would not

1025
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:46,960
hold muster

1026
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:50,480
i agree with you and i don't think uh

1027
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:54,240
teachers are too happy about this um

1028
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:58,790
where are you gonna draw the line you

1029
00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:00,880
better you take the amount of

1030
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:03,280
energy that's going into removing

1031
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:04,560
statues

1032
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:07,440
and reposition that energy on solving

1033
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:08,640
some of the economic

1034
00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:12,480
problems and social problems we have

1035
00:42:18,069 --> 00:42:16,079
this is misplaced energy of

1036
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:18,079
not all of it because some there are

1037
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:20,800
some cases of really egregious

1038
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:24,240
uh statues and and

1039
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:26,000
if you leave it up you should at least

1040
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:27,920
put a plaque there saying

1041
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:30,880
when was this statue erected who was

1042
00:42:38,390 --> 00:42:32,079
behind

1043
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:38,400
civil war said i don't want any statues

1044
00:42:44,950 --> 00:42:41,440
erected to me and they weren't

1045
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:44,960
when were they elected in

1046
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:47,760
a generation later when the ku klux klan

1047
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:48,400
was

1048
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:51,359
of riding high that's when the the lee

1049
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:54,079
statues went up

1050
00:43:00,190 --> 00:42:58,000
so i would not take the the statute down

1051
00:43:02,230 --> 00:43:00,200
i would put up a black a plaque

1052
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,240
contextualizing how it got there in the

1053
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:08,230
is there a better constitution

1054
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,240
in the world than america's

1055
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:14,400
what most constitutions in the world

1056
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:16,960
have borrowed from ours

1057
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:18,640
i mean that was one of our greatest

1058
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:20,079
exports

1059
00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:24,240
and uh not that i know of no

1060
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:27,520
and franklin when it was asked at the uh

1061
00:43:31,109 --> 00:43:29,920
constitutional convention whether he was

1062
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,119
40s

1063
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:33,359
he says yeah i'm for it if you can

1064
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:39,589
so not without flaws but so it's okay

1065
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:41,280
for teachers to teach

1066
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:44,480
children in school to be

1067
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:47,520
proud of america's founding to admire

1068
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:50,319
the founders to recognize that what they

1069
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:52,000
drew was one of the greatest

1070
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:54,400
governing instruments and the history of

1071
00:44:01,990 --> 00:43:56,560
man

1072
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:02,000
absolutely and the right the hard right

1073
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:04,880
really has very little confidence in

1074
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,319
young minds

1075
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:09,040
they say if you teach them all this

1076
00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:11,839
stuff about slavery and mccarthyism

1077
00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:14,000
they're not going to even want to be an

1078
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:15,680
american anymore they're not going to be

1079
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:17,040
a patriot

1080
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:19,040
and when i was involved in debates over

1081
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:20,800
the national history standards and that

1082
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:22,079
was thrown at me i

1083
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,599
i would say well you know i've been

1084
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:25,920
teaching at ucla for a long time

1085
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:27,920
and i talk a lot about the dispossession

1086
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:30,400
of indian lands in the 17th and 18th

1087
00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:31,040
century

1088
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:33,920
or slavery things like this i never had

1089
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:36,079
a student i taught thousands of them

1090
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:38,800
i never had one who came to me and said

1091
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:41,040
i'm giving up my citizenship i want to

1092
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:43,119
live in sri lanka or i want to live in

1093
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:44,160
bosnia

1094
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:46,720
i never had one like that they say why

1095
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:48,640
didn't i learn about this

1096
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:52,319
earlier i i i i could be a better

1097
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,280
citizen

1098
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:55,680
because i know some of the sad parts of

1099
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:57,200
our past and how

1100
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:01,440
we can create a more perfect union

1101
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:02,880
yeah and and in each one of those

1102
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:04,720
circumstances we were able to move

1103
00:45:08,069 --> 00:45:06,560
past them in part because of our

1104
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:08,079
constitutional framework whether it

1105
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:10,319
required an amendment or what have you

1106
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:12,800
and we've continued to essentially

1107
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,720
become better and better

1108
00:45:19,109 --> 00:45:17,040
i think so i think the path forward has

1109
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:19,119
been rock strewn

1110
00:45:23,829 --> 00:45:21,599
and sometimes we stumble over it and

1111
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:23,839
even take a step backward

1112
00:45:34,710 --> 00:45:32,550
i think is clear i mean some say we

1113
00:45:37,270 --> 00:45:34,720
haven't made any progress yep

1114
00:45:38,150 --> 00:45:37,280
we're back where we were 100 years ago

1115
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:38,160
50 years ago

1116
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:42,000
25 years ago i don't buy that

1117
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:43,839
last question what what is your thoughts

1118
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:46,079
about the fact that right now they're

1119
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:48,079
not putting history in the schools up

1120
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:49,599
there with reading writing and

1121
00:45:54,069 --> 00:45:52,560
arithmetic is that a big mistake i do

1122
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:54,079
think it's a big mistake

1123
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:55,359
how do you read you have to read

1124
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:57,680
something why not read history

1125
00:46:01,829 --> 00:46:00,079
you're gaining literacy skills at the

1126
00:46:04,790 --> 00:46:01,839
same time you're learning about

1127
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:04,800
your past and america's place in the

1128
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:07,040
world and world history itself

1129
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:09,440
so i yeah i think it's a big mistake so

1130
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:10,640
fifth grade

1131
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:13,760
uh which in most states is where u.s

1132
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:14,960
history began

1133
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:17,599
has been dropped from the curriculum why

1134
00:46:22,710 --> 00:46:19,680
to drive up the scores

1135
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:22,720
on reading and math put all the focus

1136
00:46:26,309 --> 00:46:24,880
there and by the way is that just a

1137
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:26,319
california thing are you saying this is

1138
00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:26,960
happening

1139
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:30,160
u.s wide this dropping of fifth grade um

1140
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:33,200
if each state has its own framework

1141
00:46:37,750 --> 00:46:36,160
but in many states yes they taught us

1142
00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:37,760
history for the first time in fifth

1143
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,280
grade fourth grade you did your state

1144
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:41,200
history fifth grade you do

1145
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:43,359
u.s history for the first time a lot of

1146
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:44,640
states uh

1147
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:47,280
or school districts i should say have

1148
00:46:50,630 --> 00:46:48,560
dropped it

1149
00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:50,640
they want they want more fed they want

1150
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:51,960
more federal dollars

1151
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:54,960
unfortunately um

1152
00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:58,319
and those are based somewhat on raising

1153
00:47:01,589 --> 00:47:01,119
the scores on these standardized tests

1154
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:01,599
in

1155
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:08,560
is that some teachers are afraid to

1156
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:09,680
teach history because they're going to

1157
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:10,560
get blow back

1158
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:13,920
from one side or another we're such a

1159
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:16,560
heavy politicized environment

1160
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:19,599
that as you know

1161
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:21,920
people debate what the facts are and how

1162
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:22,880
those facts are

1163
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:26,400
presented and teachers don't want to get

1164
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:28,400
lambasted from

1165
00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:31,280
from parents for teaching their children

1166
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:33,200
something that they don't agree with

1167
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:35,119
well that blowback is very very

1168
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:36,480
unfortunate

1169
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:40,000
and i feel for these teachers we we were

1170
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:42,000
very protected in a way

1171
00:47:46,069 --> 00:47:44,079
at the university no parent ever called

1172
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:46,079
me up and said i looked at you reading

1173
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:47,680
this i don't like it at all

1174
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:49,680
i don't want my kids even taking their

1175
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:51,119
classes

1176
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:55,839
we were we were not alone you might say

1177
00:48:02,549 --> 00:47:59,760
the local people were part of this toxic

1178
00:48:04,630 --> 00:48:02,559
atmosphere they knew where to go to

1179
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:04,640
stand outside someone's house

1180
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:07,520
and shout sheldon yell or at pta

1181
00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:08,480
conferences

1182
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:10,400
it's really a very very unfortunate

1183
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:11,920
because these teachers

1184
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:14,720
you know are not well paid relatively to

1185
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:16,720
a lot of other people in america they're

1186
00:48:20,790 --> 00:48:18,079
well-meaning

1187
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:20,800
they're they love to be with kids they

1188
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:22,000
love to teach

1189
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:24,400
and you know high percentage of them do

1190
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,359
a good job

1191
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:27,839
it's very unfortunate well you know when

1192
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:30,559
you have government intervening

1193
00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:31,920
we talked about this a little bit the

1194
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:35,200
last time whether there should even be

1195
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:38,480
public schools the government teaching

1196
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:40,240
our children

1197
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:42,160
something just doesn't strike me as

1198
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:43,520
right about that that sounds somewhat

1199
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:44,960
authoritarian the idea that the

1200
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:45,760
government

1201
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:47,280
teaches our children you know i know

1202
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:48,880
it's more at a local level but when

1203
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:49,920
you've got trump

1204
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:52,960
you know starting the 1776 commission

1205
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:54,000
about

1206
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:56,720
making sure the kids learn our history

1207
00:49:00,549 --> 00:48:58,240
in school

1208
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:00,559
that's inherently political because

1209
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:02,400
trump is a very divisive

1210
00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:05,119
person i mean i happen to be on the side

1211
00:49:08,309 --> 00:49:05,920
of

1212
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,319
wanting to make sure that our children

1213
00:49:12,470 --> 00:49:10,319
learn our history properly and

1214
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:12,480
and and have admiration for the founding

1215
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,359
and how unique

1216
00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:15,680
it was so the idea that we would move

1217
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:17,200
more toward that is a good thing but

1218
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:19,119
you know as soon as you have it coming

1219
00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:20,400
from trump then

1220
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:24,720
boom now you've got it totally polarized

1221
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:28,400
well when you see a federal government

1222
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:31,680
dictating to the schools what books

1223
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:32,800
should be read

1224
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:36,240
how they should be taught you know

1225
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:37,920
you're in or very close to an

1226
00:49:43,829 --> 00:49:39,359
authoritarian

1227
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,839
autocratic government in a democratic

1228
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:45,119
society

1229
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:48,240
you'll you'll know it by the freedom of

1230
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:50,160
teachers to close the door

1231
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:53,440
teach to the kids choose from a great

1232
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:55,839
mass of curricular materials

1233
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:59,119
uh and listen to your local school board

1234
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:01,200
yep so it's very dangerous it's very

1235
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:03,440
troubling and these teachers are under a

1236
00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:04,240
lot of

1237
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,559
a pressured house very unfortunate but

1238
00:50:09,430 --> 00:50:08,480
why even have these national history

1239
00:50:11,829 --> 00:50:09,440
standards

1240
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:11,839
to begin with i mean do you support that

1241
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:14,000
yes because they were never mandatory

1242
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:15,440
they were voluntary

1243
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:17,920
we were setting lamplights along the

1244
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:18,800
road

1245
00:50:23,109 --> 00:50:20,960
and it was as they say a massive

1246
00:50:23,910 --> 00:50:23,119
consensus building project between

1247
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:23,920
teachers

1248
00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:26,400
and all these organizations representing

1249
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:27,200
teachers

1250
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:29,680
and the collaborate collaboration with

1251
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:30,480
with the

1252
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:33,920
publishing academic scholars um

1253
00:50:38,549 --> 00:50:36,960
so yeah but they were voluntary it was

1254
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:38,559
never from the

1255
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:41,760
very get-go fought to be mandatory

1256
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:44,240
they're out there if you want to look at

1257
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:44,800
them

1258
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:48,240
good if you derive some new teaching

1259
00:50:52,870 --> 00:50:49,680
ideas from them

1260
00:50:55,990 --> 00:50:52,880
better if you aren't just

1261
00:50:59,349 --> 00:50:56,000
interested in them toss them in the

1262
00:51:02,069 --> 00:50:59,359
waste paper basket if you want

1263
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:02,079
okay we'll let it go with that how about

1264
00:51:04,549 --> 00:51:04,079
just one parting word we started talking

1265
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:04,559
about

1266
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:09,520
uh states looking to secede and so on

1267
00:51:13,589 --> 00:51:12,319
what is your parting message to to

1268
00:51:20,829 --> 00:51:13,599
america right now

1269
00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:24,870
well i don't have any answers i haven't

1270
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:26,079
read any answers

1271
00:51:32,309 --> 00:51:29,200
about how to unify america when this

1272
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:32,319
polarization has reached this point

1273
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:34,079
you would think that leadership at the

1274
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:35,440
top

1275
00:51:39,430 --> 00:51:37,760
would have some effect and at least

1276
00:51:42,069 --> 00:51:39,440
that's a beginning

1277
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:42,079
i i think what we need is some fireside

1278
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:43,040
chats

1279
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:46,160
of the sort that fdr did over radio

1280
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:47,599
where he tried to speak out to the

1281
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:49,359
american people and talk about the

1282
00:51:52,950 --> 00:51:50,400
problems

1283
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:52,960
uh to talk about what was needed in the

1284
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:55,119
democracy to

1285
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:58,480
to deal with them so uh all i can say is

1286
00:52:01,030 --> 00:52:00,319
that we have to begin with a message

1287
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:01,040
from the top

1288
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:03,839
a unified message a message about the

1289
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:05,520
need for compromise

1290
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:08,079
a need to talk to each other respect

1291
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:09,359
each other

1292
00:52:13,349 --> 00:52:12,240
has to start somewhere thank you again

1293
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:13,359
to professor nash

1294
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:15,440
thank you again professor for your

1295
00:52:19,109 --> 00:52:17,119
patience and dealing with our glitch on

1296
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:19,119
the first interview

1297
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:21,040
thank you to our producer michael parker

1298
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:22,400
thank you all for listening we'll be

1299
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:24,240
back with another episode of the hidden

1300
00:52:26,950 --> 00:52:25,200
truth show

1301
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:26,960
next week

1302
00:52:34,870 --> 00:52:33,109
thank you for listening to the truth

1303
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:34,880
show with jim breslow

1304
00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:38,480
you can find us at hiddentruthshow.com

1305
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:40,640
follow us on facebook twitter and

1306
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,440
instagram that hit the truth show

1307
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:45,119
join us again next week for another